18: Black Mirror - Bandersnatch (a choose your own adventure)

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This week: Black Mirror - Bandersnatch (a choose your own adventure)

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Transcripit of episode 18: Bandersnatch

Chad (2s): Yeah, I was in a, I was in a Pikachu onesie a plush Pikachu onesie. But other than that, it's all-

Kev (7s): A Pikachu onesie. Holy shit.

Ben (10s): Wow

Kev (11s): That is gold right there. Broadcasting live from inside the Power Band this is the Blah. In this episode, everybody dies. I'm the Mohlverine along with There-He-Goes and the Intrepid Algorithm. Gentlemen, how are you?

Chad (34s): What's going on guys?

Ben (35s): Hey.

Kev (36s): hey everybody out in podcast land. Welcome to this episode this week. We're going to be talking about the um –I don't even know how to describe it– mind-twisting mind-numbing mind-blowing Black Mirror episode Bandersnatch. winner of an Emmy Award.

Chad (55s): Really?

Kev (56s): I believe it did; it was at least nominated. I should probably know what that fact is before I say that.

Chad (1m 00s): Yeah, fair enough.

Ben (1m 01s): We'll get Jimmy right on that.

Kev (1m 03s): And while you're at it Jimmy get us a couple of coffees.

Ben (1m 10s): What's that boss? Do you want coffee?

Kev (1m 14s): Jimmy says it was nominated.

Ben (1m 14s): I feel like one of us should do Jimmy, you know, like like, you know, just like face the other way, like: hey, I got some donuts back here at they might be a little stale. But ahh you guys want 'em?

Chad (1m 27s): So Jimmy has confirmed that the 2019 Emmys are on the 15th of September and Bandersnatch is nominated. So that has not happened yet.

Kev (1m 35s): You sure about that?

Chad (1m 37s): The Google / Jimmy says that.

Kev (1m 40s): His name is Jimmy Google.

Chad (1m 41s): Jimmy Google. Yeah, that's where the yeah. He's the guy. So should we start the show over?

Kev (1m 50s): It's either that or you're going to edit a bunch of stuff.

Ben (1m 53s): Yes. Yes.

Kev (1m 54s): Welcome to the show folks this week, we're going to be talking about the mind-twisting mind-numbing Bandersnatch from Black Mirror. Which was nominated for an Emmy Award this year. So we're very excited to talk about this. Gang, where do we want to start?

Chad (2m 11s): I was wondering if you guys read choose your own Adventures back in the day?

Kev (2m 14s): Oh my God. Yes, I did and I love them.

Ben (2m 17s): Yes, I dabbled. I dabbled. and I also don't remember what game it was, but I believe I had like a like a sort of a text Adventure game for coming the Commodore vic-20, you know, like where you was like,

Kev (2m 32s): Yeah, Zork was like that.

Ben (2m 35s): Yeah, it might have it might have been Zork.

Kev (2m 37s): I might have been Zork. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben (2m 39s): Yeah, but yeah, it's also that

Kev (2m 44s): Also that. I did - I definitely read the choose your own adventures and they were great. Like I was hooked on 'em. I couldn't remember a single one right now to save my life. But like I remember being really into them when I was a kid like they were super cool. It was like, you know - get to here, choose this. Jump to this page. Get to here - choose X jump to this page. Like it was just cool and different like, you know?

Chad (3m 08s): Yeah, absolutely.

Kev (3m 09s): and there was there wasn't like it wasn't like a category. It wasn't like there was a ton of people doing it was like these just these one brand of books called choose your own Adventures, you know, like I don't know I'm surprised I didn't like catch on as more of like a thing, you know.

Chad (3m 23s): Yeah. I kind of feel like they didn't catch on probably in the same way that Bandersnatch isn't going to catch on but we'll probably get into it in a little bit, but.

Ben (3m 31s): well you know, oh, yeah. Well, I mean if it's any indication the ones I don't remember any of the names of them, but the ones that I did get like there was like a bin full of them that like the, you know, one of the department stores and they were like just on clearance or whatever. So I just grabbed like a bunch of when I was a kid. Yeah, and you know went through probably, you know, whatever half of them. Yeah, I don't remember who the publishing company was, but.

Kev (4m 05s): I mean if they were in a clearance bin Ben; I mean that right there says it all they were not catching on clearly.

Ben (4m 13s): No. No, they were not.

Chad (4m 16s): Yeah for me, um. For me, I don't really remember anything about them other than I really liked them when I was a kid and the only memory I have is like in an elementary school classroom. So I think we might have had a stack of them kicking around in the classroom that we would do like, I don't know free time or some shit. Or like, you know, go read a book - go pick up a book and read a book time kind of thing. I Remember Loving them but I think Bandersnatch reminded me of how often you run into dead ends and when you're you know, six, it doesn't really bother you but nowadays, you know, it might.

Kev (4m 50s): Totally dude. Yeah.

Ben (4m 52s): Yeah.

Kev (4m 53s): Yeah.

Chad (4m 55s): So, shifting gears a little bit maybe touching on Black Mirror would be interesting just because Like I've watched the first couple of seasons of it and it's a great show, but it's a great show that makes you want to like slit your wrists at the end of it most of the time.

Kev (5m 9s): Yeah. I mean, it's definitely dark and I wish I had had seen more episodes upon this broadcast of this podcast, but sadly I have not. I've watched a couple don't remember a lot about them.

Chad (5m 21s): Like what like less than 5 or something.

Kev (5m 24s): Probably two.

Chad (5m 25s): Yeah. Okay

Kev (5m 25s): Because I was like, I was looking for something new to get into. And I was like oh Black Mirror people have been telling me about it and it's been in my queue for a while. Then I got distracted by something else and then didn't really - I've watched maybe one and a half two episodes and then when you guys suggested this I was like, oh, yeah, Hey.

Chad (5m 43s): what about you Benny you get into it at all or watch many of them.

Ben (5m 45s): I've devoured everything. They've made yeah.

Chad (5m 47s): Yeah okay.

Kev (5m 48s): Oh, wow.

Chad (5m 50s): And what do you think about the like idea that it's you know, it's not a feel-good show.

Ben (5m 56s): Not typically I can think of like, maybe one episode –not in the Most recent season but I think in the previous season. I can't even remember how many seasons there are for the show but there's like four or five.

Chad (6m 09s): Three three or four? Yeah, I don't know there's more than two.

Ben (6m 13s): Yeah, okay. Jimmy get on that. In the in the last season is an episode called San Junipero. That's almost-

Chad (6m 21s): San Junipero is fucking fantastic.

Ben (6m 24s): Yeah, it's almost I mean it's it's there's darkness in there, but it's almost kind of feel good. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (6m 32s): Yeah, San Junipero for me is the is the only required watch for Black Mirror the rest of them like there's good ones and bad ones, but that is fantastic.

Ben (6m 40s): Yeah. San Junipero is be great.

Kev (6m 41s): Are you tell you talking about San Junipero? Okay, right. And then there's another episode listed that I haven't seen USS Callister.

Chad (6m 47s): That's good.

Kev (6m 50s): That won six Emmy Awards.

Chad (6m 51s): Yeah, that one's good. That one's worth watching and going and clean without knowing anything about it.

Ben (6m 55s): Yeah.

Kev (6m 55s): Wow.

Chad (6m 56s): Yeah, so there's a handful. There's a handful of them that are there's a handful that are quite good. A handful of them that are like, yeah, okay. And then the rest of them had good production value for me, but just like made me want to die at the end. Just like, oh my God.

Kev (7m 09s): Right.

Ben (7m 10s): Yeah, some of them are just fucking grim, and grimy, and just gnarly yeah.

Chad (7m 12s): Oh, so grim. I remember watching San Junipero and being like Oh, that's really good. And then, you know sitting down with Emma and being like I watched this really good show maybe we should watch one tonight. And the next we watch was like the darkest deepest worst, like murder-death-kill rape fantasy ever. It was just like okay. Won't be watching that again.

Kev (7m 35s): Wow! Murder-death-kill. Geez.

Chad (7m 37s): Yeah. It's heavy duty.

Kev (7m 40s): There's like no joy-joy feelings there at all.

Chad (7m 41s): None. None whatsoever.

Ben (7m 43s): There rarely are, and speaking of which I don't know. Did you guys, I don't know how many outcomes are possible in Bandersnatch. But did either of you guys come out with anything? Any warm and fuzzy feelings or?

Chad (7m 56s): Yep, I did.

Kev (7m 57s): No.

Chad (7m 59s): yeah, there's one. There's one that wasn't - it's bittersweet but there's there's one ending that I managed to hit, that was I think the real ending.

Kev (8m 9s): Really?

Chad (8m 10s): Yeah.

Kev (8m 11s): Wanna share it with the rest of the group?

Chad (8m 12s): Naw.

Ben (8m 13s): Spoiler Alert!

Chad (8m 16s): So, all right. So digging into it. There's no real way to attack this because of how all over the place it is, but I got, I got really - I got really lucky. I got really lucky on my first go-around where you know, you fail - you fail through a couple times and obvious ways, like for example, the first choice that has any real meaning is accepting or declining the game offer and the first time through I accepted the offer and it failed and you cycle through again, you know, that kind of thing.

Kev (8m 44s): Yeah. Yeah that happened to me when I watched it the second time. Yeah.

Chad (8m 46s): Yeah. So there's a couple of you know little fails like that or like, you know, destroying the computer versus punching your desk or all that kind of dumb shit. But you cycle through to either going to crack that safe with the three digit code, or going through that mirror to flashback. And so if you go to the safe with the code, there's PAC of for the first time for me. There was PAC and PAX. And so I chose one of those and it's cycle through to a fail. And then I chose going through the mirror and it cycled through to a fail. And then I got back to the safe agai, and it didn't - I was like, all right, I'll just do the opposite. I'll do PAC see this time instead of PAX. I went back in there wasn't - it was TOY and PAC. So I was like, that's weird they changed it!

Ben (9m 36s): Oh, wow.

Ben (9m 36s): Right. That's where I got to.

Chad (9m 38s): Yeah, so I clicked on toy and it goes through to him getting the toy, and then him getting on the train –and you guys might have hit the same ending– but I had quite an emotional response to that one. I felt like that was like the real ending. Its the only ending where you know, the dad doesn't get murdered etc.

Kev (9m 53s): Right?

Ben (9m 53s): Yeah. I didn't get to that one.

Chad (9m 56s): Well the thing about that one I guess is that you actually Have to fail through a certain cycle in order for it to show up at all. So I just got randomly lucky and and manage to do that. It wasn't the first time like I said, I failed out a couple times before but maybe that failing out of a couple times before made it so that it showed up at all.

Ben (10m 15s): Yeah. It's interesting.

Chad (10m 15s): But yeah evidently you cannot get it by choosing correctly. You only get it by at least failing in one certain way. Nobody really knows which way but.

Kev (10m 25s): well, I got to that on my first viewing and I got to choosing between the code, like which was the password, and I chose TOY and then it went through I think from there it goes to the kid having the toy staying at the house.

Chad (10m 38s): Yeah. Yeah. So you grab the toy and then the mom says we're going to go on the train. Do you want to come and you can say yes or no now instead of only saying no.

Kev (10m 46s): Right exactly.

Chad (10m 47s): And so if you say yes, he goes on the train and dies and did you get that ending or no?

Kev (10m 53s): I did get that and I was like the end of that thread and it's cycled back.

Chad (10m 57s): It does cycle back, but I still like it doesn't just go. Credits and say you won congratulations with fucking balloons and shit, but I feel like that's the one ending that that I really appreciate. It's like real.

Kev (11m 9s): Well, there's

Chad (11m 11s): wish that is how it ended but that would be pretty pretty awesome. Yay. It's like

Kev (11m 17s): confetti and firecrackers with yeah with like with like the cast and like a Walmart Photo like Eddie and balloons and shit the background music up thumbs up, right?

Chad (11m 31s): But I think I don't know maybe based on the fact that I just had to spend five minutes saying like you say yes to this and no to that and yes to this that might not be good good audio. So I'm not sure how exactly to attack this thing without having it just going through the different choices, you

Kev (11m 44s): know? Yeah, it's a tough one. Well, I mean, yeah, it's a there's a lot of layers to this too. And I think as you go through after the first viewing like the first viewing is like you're getting your feet wet and then you know, you know, You start doing it again. You make the different choices. You see where they go. And you also see that there's like certain events. You simply cannot get around. Like you cannot not go talk to. Dr. Haynes like yeah. Yeah, it will bring you back to

Chad (12m 14s): that. They're really Hammer that

Kev (12m 16s): home right? Like I chose I chose take the acid the first time and then Colin jump off the building and then the second time through and so that was avoiding going to see Dr. Haynes. So then the second time I avoided going to see Dr. Haynes followed Colin didn't take the acid. He spikes the tea with the acid and then I chose to jump off the building and then you go back to Dr. Haynes, you know, so like you can't you can't get around that and then like the first viewing through I got like down towards the end. It kept kept saying kept saying kill dad and I was like, I don't want to kill dad. So I kept choosing not to kill dad and I it kept showing me the option kill Dad. It was like kill dad or throw tea on computer. I was like, I don't want to kill dad and then it would like, you know.

Chad (13m 6s): It was 'kill dad' and 'back off',

Kev (13m 9s): right exactly and then it would want you would either wind back or that thread would take me to another choice where it was killed at and something else and I was

Chad (13m 17s): like, I don't want to kill my dad and

Kev (13m 20s): you know what? I mean? So like I just I kept trying to avoid killing dad and it just wasn't working man. They wanted me to kill dad So eventually dad died like

Chad (13m 31s): well that's kind of why I felt like the the toy the toy ending was I think one of the only endings that you don't kill that, you know, like you fail out early on accepting the game offer but that's like a minute into the fucking show or a movie or

Kev (13m 45s): whatever. Yeah. Yeah, it's

Chad (13m 47s): true. But if you if you grab the toy you don't end up killing dad. So for me, it was way better, you know to not murder my dad with an ashtray

Kev (13m 56s): right right was out how he murdered him with an ashtray. Yeah.

Chad (13m 59s): Hey smash. Him in the head with an ashtray.

Kev (14m 1s): That's why I thought I couldn't that I don't know why I couldn't see that what that part. When I saw that today. I just saw that the like the blood dripping down his head and I was like, oh boy, he finally did it or somebody finally made him do it. Whatever. Yeah,

Chad (14m 14s): but I kind of feel like the the murdering dad thing just is like that's a whole branch that it just goes down into like a giant Loop of different failures that that could get quite frustrating. Where did you end up on

Kev (14m 25s): all that stuff Benny? Yeah. I couldn't get out of the kill dad thing. I killed dad buried in the garden and you know, I don't know they yeah, they found me out. Like I think I got the game made but you know, it was like they were they go to like they go to like, you know after everything happens and there's like the guy like reviewing the video game and like they were talking about how amazing the game was, but the fact that it was such a strange story because the Creator killed his father and bury him in the garden, you know, like that whole that whole angle that was as good as I could get and it got fucking Harry. Hell in that whole thing like yeah, it did like, you know, that's like a one point where he's in front of his computer and it's like I forget the what the what the two choices are but one of them is just like that symbol.

Chad (15m 11s): Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like, who are you? Why are you why are you controlling me?

Kev (15m 16s): Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah meant that like that symbols been like sort of like a thread throughout Black Mirror. It's like it's like this this like this thing. So it's like this like weird kind of, you know, like meta kind of kind of thing that they're doing and you know, I don't know what it's actually supposed to mean but but yeah it wasn't he I mean ultimately for me the the choose-your-own-adventure thing was just sort of this kind of an annoyance. I mean, it's fun to do like once but when you keep getting up against it and you just want to like play the story out you just want to see what is going to happen. Yeah, it got a little got a little much at a certain point like I almost Which there is like they were just released a version of it. That's like, you know, the definitive sort of straight straight version. Yeah, I just like a straight thing because I think it's like the acting was great. And you know, the characters are interesting in the story is interesting and I just one would like to you know, really know what happens. Right?

Chad (16m 18s): So what I'm hearing is that you you appreciate that George Lucas released a specialized version of Star Wars and definitively put it out there for the world. That's what I'm

Kev (16m 27s): hearing. I don't know where you got that from bro thats it thats I think I think if they cure reaching man definitely reaching there. No, I hear you. I

Chad (16m 40s): hear you. I hear you. I think it would be cool to see I don't know maybe that I think there's probably like three versions of it or something. You could pick one of the three versions just kind of cycle through them or

Kev (16m 48s): something. You know what you know, what I would have been psyched about if I'd been able to control Netflix with like an Xbox controller or something so that I could say kick back and watch it and like make decisions and they came up like literally like I would find myself like wounding and then I'd have to like what quickly get up and like fucking like, you know it click click the answer, you know before before it, you know, like I was up ran out of time. Yeah. Yeah you were yeah. You were like, oh God now we gotta get up and do something. Yeah, it sounds that way Z, but you would you did this this story would well, here's the thing the story would Lo me into like, you know, I just be getting into it and like I would forget about the component where I would have to make a decision like ultimately like I would space out into the story and then and then the the decision would surprise me every time and I was like fuck that like it up. So, you know, I mean, I don't know like did you guys know like neither of you have been doing much gaming or whatever but are you aware of like The Telltale Game series know they've done yes. I am. Very aware that I've actually downloaded a few of them went on my Xbox Gold. I haven't played any of them The Wolf Among Us one of the Batman 10 cool. All right.

Chad (18m 4s): Well, can you briefly explain what they are? I've never heard of

Kev (18m 7s): them. Okay. Well, I mean they're they're sort of like a Choose Your Own Adventure kind of thing. Like I did the did a series for The Walking Dead. I don't know if actually ever ended up playing the last part of it. But you know, I mean you kind of have to make like morality choices walking. Yeah morality chives The Walking Dead when was a very interesting one because like a lot of them were like really really hard really hard decisions to make and then like occasionally like they're building a little action sequence or whatever. We're like, you know a zombie would crop up or whatever and you had to fucking press a certain button or you would die

Chad (18m 42s): right looks like it's like Dance Dance Revolution meets Choose Your Own Adventure.

Kev (18m 47s): Oh my God. No, no, she kind of kind of like that. You know. Yeah, I mean Ben Ben, hold on. You know what it is. It's more like a Choose Your Own Adventure meets Dragon's Lair. Remember that there you go. Hmm. Yes. Yes because there would be that's what it was like it's like all the sudden you got to press the button like left or like he dies. Like that's what Dragon's Lair was like it's like, you know

Chad (19m 11s): and your dollar has

Kev (19m 12s): gone your dollar has evaporated right? That's it. That's a great way to put it. Yeah, because I mean, you know, you would end up going through like morality trees and story Parts, but then like you're literally like controlling the character and walking around and yeah, like had said like a zombie would like crop out of somewhere and it would be like, you know, like be a button would come up on the screen. It's like press like match the a button and then like something else would happen and you'd have to like smash the B button or whatever, you know, like it was that kind of a thing. Like if you didn't do it just right you would you would die. Yeah, right like start back from where you were before. But um, yeah, I mean that was that was interesting because I could kind of you know, I mean it was another one of those things where you kind of get lost in the story and like the decision-making thing with pop up in your fuck but as I sitting there with a controller where it's like with this thing, it was like, you know, like And then have to click get up jump up and like so

Chad (20m 3s): well, like you said with the game, you're constantly doing something. Whereas with this. It's like every once in a while just long enough to get

Kev (20m 10s): annoying. Right? Exactly. Yeah. It was it was like it was like watching a movie and you know that the decisions were almost like commercials or something it had that kind of like a feel to it. Like it just sort of like Jarred me out of the story and you know, I had to jump up and try to you know, make a decision quickly and and then you know, and then we would get back into it but you know heaven forbid you've made a shitty decision and because then you have to go back it took me like a minute to figure out that you can sort of like fast forward the story to get back to where you were the previous time. But yeah, you know, yeah, it was there's a little bit of like, I mean it was enjoyable but there's a little bit of the way it worked like it was sort of just in he did mechanics were like a little inconvenient, you know? Yeah, but I think it's a great Point because like I you know, I was like, oh, this is a cool and interesting way to do it. And then we talked about it last week. You were like, I just found this annoying and I immediately was like, wow, I want to hear about that. You know what I mean? Like why and like you bring up a good point. It's like, you know, when you watch something or you know, you read a book or even play like a good game. You want to get immersed in the story. I mean, I think that's why people I think that's why normal people watch stuff. Anyway is like immersion. It takes you away from your current head space your current reality whatever and it puts you somewhere else so you can sort of play mentally and relax whatever and it's like you're yeah you're watching and every time you have to make a choice it's taking you out of that and I just found that interesting when you said it last week because I was like, wow, I've never really heard anybody like start hating on a choose-your-own-adventure kind of situation like, you know, like that's interesting that you thought

Chad (21m 59s): that When you say last week in Green Room chatting in The Green Room.

Kev (22m 3s): Yes, that's what I mean by last week. Yes in the green room right green room with Jimmy. I misspoke some coffee for the folks at home. Yeah. Yeah Jimmy, right Jimmy Jimmy Google. Hey, it's Jimmy Google. Then we go. He's a good kid Jimmy. He's kind of like spider from Goodfellas, you know? Yeah. No, I thought I thought you said you were all right spider. Yeah. So anyways, I mean that was a long way to go about that's that's where I died right there

Chad (22m 30s): spent writing that to I like that though. I just didn't

Kev (22m 32s): last spider. Yeah. It was like, yeah, I did chuckle I did it's in there. You can go back and listen

Chad (22m 38s): to I kind of feel like half the time I'm like trying to be polite. So I don't interrupt like an asshole and people died as a result. So maybe I should interrupt more

Kev (22m 45s): that well, maybe you should because I died right there. Yeah, and I just wrote it down a note died on spider

Chad (22m 52s): then at the end of the show. Whoa, whoa wait because despite I don't

Kev (22m 55s): understand wait wait, I just died like spider because spider dies. In that scene what just happened here? I don't

Chad (23m 4s): know. I know what happened you died again,

Kev (23m 9s): exactly double

Chad (23m 10s): death. So you want to touch any more on the frustrations Benny.

Kev (23m 15s): I think I got it all out there.

Chad (23m 17s): You got a lot of your

Kev (23m 17s): system. I'm sure you guys experienced similar frustrations.

Chad (23m 21s): Yeah. Definitely I got again lucky and didn't experience it until my second go around. So it was just pure pure luck.

Kev (23m 28s): Yeah. Yes and no like I didn't even really think about that until you said that so like and then I was like, yeah, I could totally see how this would be annoying but like if I'm going with my gut like I enjoyed it I was like, I like exploring around things, you know, like I was like how this is fun to like kind of explore with you know, and like like it's funny because you guys were saying like, you know, you got the came to the part, you know where it's like Netflix or the weird symbol the glyph and then when I did it the Second time know the first time I like I kept like dying and winding back or whatever and then I got to the whole him exploring the whole pack thread, which was like, wait. Wait. Wait, what's it? What's what does it stand for again? Power and control something like that? Yeah pack power and control so like he like so then the choice was the glyph or pack and I was like, oh that's interesting. So and then you went down the pack thread and then he went to the safe and he hit pack and he found all the files like that and I thought that was a very interesting thread like it's funny. I actually I thought that was more interesting than the whole Netflix thread because the first time I watched it I hit Netflix and I was like what's this going to be and then it was like, you know, then it was really like, you know tearing the fourth wall down and it was like, you know, you are being controlled by viewers watching a program in the 21st century and I was like kind of into that but not Lately, I don't know. I wasn't that into

Chad (25m 2s): that. I want to really bothering me. I was just like

Kev (25m 3s): fuck off right? There you go. There you go. Chat. Yeah, I didn't I didn't even get that one that also so like that that was and then like, I think I chose the glyph one when that went nowhere and it was like the glyph one didn't go anywhere. So then when I when I looped back either looped back or when I watched it the second time and I chose PA CPAC. It was I thought I found that thread very interesting and then it was all the sudden it was like this huge conspiracy and dads in on it. And Dr. Haynes is in on it and it's like this whole often actress and all that stuff. Exactly. Right and I loved how and this is now. I'm sort of diverging from that that thought but I really enjoyed how they kept showing the game reviewer. He was in many ways like sort of the end of each thread like whether the game did you know, it was like, oh he died sadly he died so somebody else finished it and it's crappy you Or you know, it feels too short like it was rushed. You know, like I don't know that was kind of interesting how they always had the game reviewer and I thought it was interesting that they even had a game reviewer. Like like I was like Wow in the UK and the 80s they had a game review show like I mean, nobody was reviewing games to my recollection in the 80s, like people that video games were just stupid and like a complete waste of time and in the US. Yeah, and on the US, yeah. Yeah, not on TV. Anyways,

Chad (26m 34s): it wasn't until like the mac and magazines like Nintendo power and

Kev (26m 38s): stuff. Yeah, maybe but even I didn't that come later Chad like 90s.

Chad (26m 43s): Yeah, no for sure like probably like, you know 86 to 89. Maybe

Kev (26m 48s): that's when Nintendo power came out the magazine really.

Chad (26m 51s): Well, I mean Nintendo. Oh, yeah, you might be right actually Nintendo NES might be like 88 or 89 Jimmy

Kev (26m 57s): Jimmy okay it up. Hey. Couple of coffees. Um, I yeah, I don't know there's like, you know all those like Game Informer. There's all those magazines it came out. I remember well, you know what reading a bunch of them over the years. I never had a subscription because I felt like subscribing to a gay magazine was like a real low point in my life, but I did read random issues, you know, like now listeners don't let that stop you from subscribing to the podcast through that that's right. And don't let that stop you from retroactively subscribing to Nintendo Power Game Informer or Playstation magazine Jimmy.

Chad (27m 34s): Hey, Ben as Jimmy you want to let us know that Nintendo NES was 1985 and Nintendo Powers

Kev (27m 40s): 1988. Hey guys, it's Jimmy. Jimmy. Google Nintendo Power was 88 and NES was

Chad (27m 49s): 85. Oh my God, I can't decide whether that needs to happen every show or only one

Kev (27m 57s): time or never again.

Chad (27m 59s): Yeah, exactly or never again

Kev (28m 2s): folks for the folks at home. This may be where the podcast jumps the shark

Chad (28m 5s): completely I love it and

Kev (28m 8s): Chad. Stop pretending like Ben is Jimmy Jim. He's a real

Chad (28m 11s): person. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Sorry Jimmy.

Kev (28m 14s): Sorry Jimmy Google. I assume that would probably edit it out.

Chad (28m 17s): No, I think I'll probably leave it all in the

Kev (28m 20s): my God.

Chad (28m 22s): I think I think this would be a good place to stop talking about ten endings because it there's there's ten endings to the to the to the movie. What is this a movie or a show a show? I

Kev (28m 36s): suppose it's a movie know. It's an hour and a half minutes. It's a feature-length. Yeah.

Chad (28m 44s): All right. Well, I'm just gonna call them. They guess I just died again it is it's a feature like this Trail off, right? Let's Trail off into

Kev (28m 54s): Oblivion won't my wall.

Chad (28m 59s): I love it price is

Kev (29m 1s): right.

Chad (29m 3s): All right, so this there's 10 and

Kev (29m 5s): exist and been does it the best been do it one more time for the folks at home. They heard their dude.

Chad (29m 13s): That's your death go.

Kev (29m 14s): So that was my third

Chad (29m 16s): death. That's it. Yeah, that's it. Practically. They dial. I'm at the stage. So just 10 there's 10 endings that I saw some YouTube video about which isn't worth linking the show because it was a kind of a dumb video, but just to quickly go through them. Yeah. Fuck that guy. Yeah, fuck them shitty Creator. He content the the first four of them are pretty straightforward. So the first one is accepting the game offer which is a fail pouring tea and your computer anytime you destroy your computer fails out if Stephen the main character or Stephen or whatever jumps off the balcony on acid. It's a fail right there. There's one that if he chooses to take the medication given to him versus throw it away. It just he completes the game and he gets a really shitty review and it's like Christmas time and then that's kind of like a ending like it's a really weird simple short ending. It's like it's like a 0 out of 5 stars from the nerdy guy and he goes to the record store at Christmas time and then you get into the actual endings. So we've spoken about toy which was the train ride where he chooses to die with his mom. Did you get that one Ben? Nope. Okay. So basically you go into the safe you get the toy and you put it back where your dad took it away from you if you ever saw any of that stuff and yeah, you can say yes or no to your mom now and you go with her and when you go with her you die in the train and then it cuts to cuts to the main character in the doctor's office Dead with a paramedic and they're like, she's just like he was just sitting there and he closed his eyes for a second and then he died and that's kind of bad. That's crazy. That's crazy, which was interesting. The next ending was the Pac-12 that you were just talking. About Kev where it's like conspiracy theory the dad is not the Daddy's of scientists and all that kind of shit kind of stranger things. Yeah, kind of thing.

Kev (30m 59s): Definitely stranger things

Chad (31m 0s): totally the next two endings of the Netflix ending. So when you get to shoot when he says, who are you you either choose the glyph for Netflix if you choose Netflix, you can either jump out the window or punch the shit out of the lady with the nun-chucks the doctor ends up with nun-chucks and has a big fight

Kev (31m 16s): sequence. That's interesting. I didn't see that. I saw I saw the fight sequence where he fights the doctor and the dad like the dad runs in and

Chad (31m 24s): like you just can't even kick the dad in the balls or whatever. Yeah so that we're chopping on the neck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like that's the worst ending. Like I just I had no time for it. But if you choose to jump out the window, it's a different breaking of the fourth wall where like he tries to jump out the window and it's they yell cut in the director comes on and it's like dude you can't do that and then he's like, oh what and everyone's just like an actor on a set.

Kev (31m 48s): Can I just check? Can I just jump in here real quick with a little digression? When you said that about the action movie sequence ending, I'm picturing you on the couch watching it and going. Oh my God, I can't say I can't watch this at one and a half speed

Chad (32m 5s): be I don't have time for this.

Kev (32m 7s): I'm a podcaster. I can't I don't have time to sit around and watch this stupid action movie ending

Chad (32m 13s): bail bail. Yep. That's pretty much out.

Kev (32m 17s): What is that? Right? All right. Go ahead. Sorry.

Chad (32m 20s): Yeah, I was in a I was in a Pikachu onesie. I like a plush Pikachu onesie. But other than that, it's

Kev (32m 26s): the Pikachu onesie. Holy shit. Wow, that is gold right there.

Chad (32m 33s): I think I now need to buy a Pikachu onesie a XXL Pikachu onesie.

Kev (32m 36s): Yes you do and you have to wear it every time we do the podcast and you have to post pictures for the well fans fans may be a bit of a broad term.

Chad (32m 46s): But if we if we ever do any live shows, I'll wear Pikachu onesie to one of them. I promise that right now,

Kev (32m 53s): Okay. All right. I'm down with that. Dude.

Chad (32m 55s): If any of you listening recommend us to your friends and we grow the show. We do a live show. I will wear a Pikachu onesie at least one

Kev (33m 1s): time. You know, what we're going to you know, but you are he going are going to hold you to that man. You know

Chad (33m 5s): it I'll do it. Fuck it. I don't care.

Kev (33m 7s): I fucking goodies. You sound just like you do it. I'll do it. If you do not fucking do it. I'll do it right now bro. So you sound just like we're back in the eighties.

Chad (33m 16s): dude and said just because we are our there's there's two more

Kev (33m 20s): endings. Did it get in there? Go ahead Chad finish the endings. Go ahead.

Chad (33m 24s): So the ninth ending which doesn't sound like you guys might have hit but I hope that you did is the Pearl ending. Did you end up going into the future where Collins baby daughter is now an adult woman and she is remaking Bandersnatch after her father and the Creator died.

Kev (33m 42s): Oh, holy shit. No, but that's cool as hell.

Chad (33m 45s): That was a cool one. Did you do you see that one

Kev (33m 48s): Benny? Nope. Wow, that's really cool. Now I didn't catch that one.

Chad (33m 51s): So it's like for those who didn't see it, it's you choose the glyph and it Cycles through in a certain way whatever and it cuts to an interview with pearl and it doesn't really make it super clear that she's the daughter of Colin but wait. Yeah, but that's

Kev (34m 7s): the one I got. I'm sorry. I'm yeah, it's been a while.

Chad (34m 10s): Yeah, that's cool. So you got that one. That one was cool. I was the one I got. Yeah. Well, that's good. It sounded like your got stuck in some shitty loop at least you got some sort of ending their instead of just fail

Kev (34m 19s): looping. Yes. I think either two things happened just right there. I think either jar, he goes hatred of the Choose Your Own Adventure style was clouding his mind from remembering what happened or Darth Sidious AKA Emperor Palpatine was clouding his mind

Chad (34m 41s): fair. I think the Star Wars reaching is hitting a climax

Kev (34m 45s): tonight. Yeah. I'm going to go. I'm going to put it just kind of just I'm going to quickly jump A fourth death. That's my fourth step. Go ahead. Definitely Palpatine.

Chad (34m 56s): Yeah, it was definitely Palpatine go for Papa Palpatine.

Kev (34m 59s): It's going to say that your tool. I hate you. I don't know fries. I'm not gonna eat him.

Chad (35m 3s): Anyways, what the hell? Is it? Aluminum Falcon the yeah. I thought that their yeah, the Pearl ending was cool. It was like and it cuts to an interview of pearl as an older older woman like a, you know, 20-something and she's sitting in front of an iPad and an iMac kind of like graphic designing the actual show for Netflix. So she's it's like it's kind of metal. You know, it's like I'm going to make an actual show about this and and then it starts kind of tweaking out like her screen her screen ends up tweaking out and it's throaty on the computer or destroy computer and then it just fails, you know, like so she like the cycle repeats which is kind of a cool

Kev (35m 38s): ending. I like that. I definitely like that a lot.

Chad (35m 41s): Yes, that was interesting and then the final final ending which is kind of silly but makes sense considering is like a secret. It's a secret ending well, No one really knows how to actually do it. But some people on the Internet figured out if you do like these 20 steps it unlocks this weird thing where you know in the beginning he's on the bus and he has to choose between the two cassette tapes. Yes. Yeah. It's now one of the tapes is like a black Bandersnatch tape and you click on it and like what it plays this really weird. Like I haven't heard the audio but if they say it sounds like you know, like old modem. He's screeching audio and if you run that through some sort of fucking program it spits out like some sort of like hexadecimal code that then if you plug that into something else makes a QR code and if you fucking open the QR code, it goes to a Secret website and then the Secret website you can play the fucking video game it all that kind of shit.

Kev (36m 35s): So oh my god. Wow, that's

Chad (36m 37s): intense, which is like an ARG. Do you guys ever do any ARG stuff for ever hear about any ARG

Kev (36m 42s): stuff? Yeah, definitely heard about it. I haven't really indulge in any but that's what I was going to say. It sounds like an ARG. Yeah. Yeah, but it's also like you guys remember like Bunch of episodes back. I don't remember which episode I brought up that hole Archer Easter egg.

Chad (36m 57s): Oh, yeah. Yeah just like that.

Kev (36m 58s): Yeah. I remember that. It's that sounds exactly like that because that Archer Easter egg was like deep it had like all these layers to it and all involved like and what's-his-face Krieger. Well, yeah you end up at a site called like Alger-soft or something like that, right something crazy like that. Yeah. It was like it had all these steps to get there that were like totally nuts and it's like it's deep like it's such deep nerdery like on a level. That's even I if I can be so bold Beyond

Chad (37m 29s): ourselves. Yeah kind of I have to admit that I participated a little bit in an ARG back in the day for Halo 2. I think it was

Kev (37m 38s): wait. What's an ARG?

Chad (37m 40s): so energy is an Alternate or Alternative Reality Game. And so the Halo game was interesting. It was like, I think it was even Certainly before podcasting was a big thing. So Halo 2 was about to come out and there were like using this ARG is essentially like a way to Market stuff. So the secret The Secret website for Archer or the secret secret website for this is like a way for like the turbo fans to like turbo out and talk about it and stuff. And so there was an ARG for Halo 2. I don't remember the name of it. But I think it was called I love bees and it was this weird Audio Drama so they would release like four minutes of audio that was about like aliens invading Earth and it was really confusing and if you did certain things you don't block websites just like we were just talking about and you eventually eventually it ended up generating GPS coordinates. So there was like a list of like, I don't know 50 GPS coordinates that some nerds found in some secret corner of the Internet after listening to these audio pieces is Audio Drama and it happened that one of those GPS coordinates was in San Francisco where I was I was living at the time so I Went to this coordinate and was like looking around like writing down what was on it and be like, I don't know what the fuck up looking for. It turns out they were GPS coordinates of pay-phones and at a certain time the pay phone would ring and give you a code and that code would give you a ticket to a movie theater where they had giant man geek Sunday set up so you could play Halo 2 before it came out. So like the trip to turbofans that solve this puzzle would get to go and like play the game before anyone else got to play it. So it's kind of a cool marketing thing, but it's like super involved, you

Kev (39m 20s): know, that is super involved but super cool too. I really like that.

Chad (39m 24s): It's a really cool idea but it's like you said, it's pretty fucking nerd-tastic. I really enjoyed it because of the Audio Drama was it was like a, you know, probably 3040 minute Audio Drama that was quite interesting, but it's an interesting format of marketing. And I'm dead

Kev (39m 40s): pew pew have to be respected in his cap. No, you didn't lose me. Sorry. I was just spacing it

Chad (39m 46s): Kevin still basking in the glory of my death.

Kev (39m 49s): Yeah, I know what death will you mean? You haven't died. I've died four times. You haven't died at

Chad (39m 53s): all. It's very fitting that. I died talking about how I participated in a really nerdy alternative reality game.

Kev (40m 1s): Is that how you died? Yeah. He finished his story and we're both like crickets.

Chad (40m 5s): Now the Crickets the crickets were also sitting there just like what you think well well man. All right, so that's that's all the

Kev (40m 11s): endings. That's really interesting man. That no, I was actually just looking up that whole secret ending thing. That's pretty cool.

Chad (40m 18s): That's how I died is you got fucking distracted so I actually didn't die you die cuz you quit the

Kev (40m 22s): show. Yeah, you know, what dude I think that I'm gonna have to go back and watch this sore and we may end up talking about this episode again.

Chad (40m 34s): I think I don't know if there's YouTube videos that actually show you the And this because it's kind of a bitch to get to him.

Kev (40m 40s): Sometimes I don't want to I kind of want to find it on my own. Yeah fair enough. I don't know maybe maybe not. I don't really have that kind of time

Chad (40m 46s): with all that spare time. You've got you gotta watch the boys bro.

Kev (40m 49s): Yeah with all the spare time. I don't have totally man. Sounds like a great way to spend it. Yeah, you know, it would have been a great Black Mirror thing to talk about what San Junipero

Chad (40m 59s): all would definitely we should definitely do one of those.

Kev (41m 2s): Well, let's let's let's table that like for our shelve that rather for another episode. Yes. Yeah. Yeah because I mean okay Bandersnatch was fascinating but it's so it's so broad. I feel like we're kind of stammering here trying to write stay on track and and talk about it kind of impulse. I mean, I feel like Roots. Yeah. It's yeah, it's hard. Well, I think but I think Chad was right though been it's like it's hard to be on a track talking about you're talking about a Choose Your Own Adventure where there's so many threads man. I mean like, you know, you could we could sit here for like Hour and a half or two hours talk about all the threads but I don't really think anybody wants to listen to that. I sit don't

Chad (41m 44s): and that's kind of why I thought talk about the endings kind of ties that up and we don't need to go into the threats and exactly that's

Kev (41m 49s): exactly right and right, you know, yeah, it's anecdotal now, it's anecdotal. Yeah. I think the endings are cool and I enjoyed just taking like two stabs at it and seeing where I ended up, you know, and it's like I even if you just do I think to go rounds you're going to end up having to wind back or flashback which is sort of a segue into one thing. I did want to talk about but do it. So so you're going to have to wind back flashback and then do it again. So it's going to sort of drag it out. But one thing that it did jump out at me that I thought was pretty cool was like, you know, the whole thing like breaks the fourth wall in a major way and like we've already sort of touched on that, but I really dug Make like when Colin was saying about the flashbacks. He's like that's what the flashbacks are that that's how you can reset everything and I was like, wait what like, I don't know that was intriguing to me like At first I was like thinking like, you know, when you have a memory or you you have a flash of a memory, you know what I mean, like going back in your mind like and then sort of starting over that way. But now as I'm like verbalize it I'm I'm wondering if he meant like because the gate the the movie breaks the fourth wall. Is he referring to the actual flashbacks that we the user are using as we're watching

Chad (43m 21s): it? Yeah. The first time I saw the first time I saw Colin talking in that acid kind of scene. I kind of took it as he also is aware of the lack of control in that world not in the sense of it being a Netflix show but in the sense of it being like a trap And maybe like game developers of that era that are doing the text Adventures are closer to the I don't know for lack of a better way to describe it the Terror and reality that ends up making it so that people in that in that universe so to speak don't have control. So he like clearly clearly to me Colin is a story mechanism to help push everything along but at the same time you can kind of like forgive the story mechanism part and just like kind of accept the the lower that he that this universe has like no free will and you as the viewer of this show are the god in this case, but regardless of their being like a show, there's no Free Will and some people are closer to realizing it than others and it seems like the the overall meta story is that choose your own Adventures uncovers the like fractured nature of the reality there and so he's kind of also aware of how fucked up in fractured it is because like No One's Gonna jump off a fucking balcony just Like help this dude in his story. He's clearly like also in his own version of it, maybe

Kev (44m 43s): yes. Yeah. I think that's right. You just melted my brain dude,

Chad (44m 49s): but is that what you're that's kind of what you were saying. I thought though Kev is that he talking about talking about flashbacks is kind of like is he or isn't he part of this or is he or isn't he on to something? Is that kind of what you were getting at?

Kev (45m 3s): Hmm. Wow, you sort of just expounded on what I was saying in a way that I didn't even think of

Chad (45m 12s): can you clarify what it was you're saying that because I wasn't really

Kev (45m 14s): following. No, I don't need to clarify it. Like I think it was pretty clear. I'm saying you just like added more to it that made it even crazier like so like as I didn't even think about that like Collin is having his own. Oh my god. Wow, that was intense,

Chad (45m 31s): but he also shows up like if he jumps off the thing and dies, he'll show up sometimes after that, you know.

Kev (45m 38s): Right and then and then and then there's a bunch of times where like what's his name? Mr. Two cars like oh, he's just he's he went AWOL. He's in Amsterdam and I was like, wait a minute is he or did he die like because there were threads that got me to that part that didn't involve him jumping off with the acid like when you choose to jump yourself.

Chad (46m 1s): Yeah, you fail out if you choose to not follow calling it just skips it and he's in all the

Kev (46m 5s): scenes. No, he's not. I I feel like I took that choice at one point and like so I chose to like no acid known follow him and then he still went AWOL. I remember that happening one time. Anyway, whatever I could be wrong. Maybe I don't know. I just I just thought that was interesting like like is like, is that what he's talking about? Like the you literally doing the flashbacks as the Netflix viewer or is he talking about some sort of I don't want to say Because that sounds too dumb, but you know what? I mean, like you can like you can like flash it back in your mind and like you're there for real, you know what I mean? Like or are rather they like it's all happening inside Stefan's head.

Chad (46m 51s): Right? What do you think Ben? You think it was in his head?

Kev (46m 53s): Yeah, Ben help me. I don't I don't know. I want to say it's all of those things. Really. I mean, I don't know

Chad (47m 4s): it kind of fits with the like three main narratives, you know, like it's all real a it's all in Colin said he's fucking crazy be okay or it's all meta and your fourth wall breaker.

Kev (47m 18s): See now. I want to more or less go with it's all of those things or it's or it's all meta depending on depending on where you end up going after that, you know, right but it's really again, it's kind of like you said Chad you're the god in the story. So it's sort of up to you decide. I think what you know what that is, right, but but but if you take like that one ending the Chad was talking about that. I did not see where where it suggests that the very least strongly that Pearl is living in the future now, okay as the daughter of And dead. Okay. Yeah, right dead Colin. However, he died, you know, and then she's creating either the story on Netflix or recreating the game or recreating the whole thing as an interactive experience on Netflix would make it like this sort of ultimate like this is going to sound so super nerd but your goes like Quantum reality fourth wall breaking nerd loop from hell this sort of keeps creating itself. Like, you know what I mean,

Chad (48m 39s): like so Ouroboros like a snake eating its own tail thing.

Kev (48m 42s): It's like Ouroboros. So she creates this interactive experience for Netflix and then you start watching it as Colin. I mean, Stefan from his point of view make the choices and he knows that Netflix is a thing and it's controlling him and somehow Colin does as well and then that's the point where my brain starts to melt because then like it's a it's a shell like

Chad (49m 15s): that. It's like a whole other layer of meta you're looping through her creation back to her her failure

Kev (49m 22s): because it's a show but then it's not a show because Colin has the child and then the child grows up to create the interactive experience. It's like, you know, like a Möbius strip man. Like it's like like you were like what you just

Chad (49m 35s): said well and also it her character would clearly be screwed up by her dad dying when she was an infant and it would be likely a way for her to like seek closure, you know to try and like figure out the Y by recreating it and then falling into the same trap. So like it's super super meta potentially.

Kev (49m 54s): Wow, right? Potentially. Yes weight of Two fucking choose-your-own-adventure boys, exactly. Apparently apparently it was captivating for the both of you because you're you're now you're it

Chad (50m 8s): turns out that Bandersnatch has actually as good as The Iliad and the Odyssey turns out

Kev (50m 13s): right but I mean, I don't know like I did would been saying because like, I feel like this happens often on the podcast is it like we're in the process of talking about something we should we die. We end up discovering some other layer to it. You know what I mean? Like, I I knew there was a lot of layers there like some really cool ones too and like I forgot to comment before Chad you were saying like I had a real you said, I have a real visceral reaction to like the kid when he died on the train or whatever and like just the whole part with the bunny. I don't know that really like I really responded to that as well emotionally, you know, I mean like but I don't know like like the whole thing about the theory that I just posited is Like that's where it goes in and out of the fourth wall. Like it's like it's totally real and it's totally not real it like exists in both places. Yeah, like that's what I'm saying. Like it's like it starts off as a show you're watching it. And then in the course of the interactive Adventure, he has a daughter and that daughter grows up to be the person in our time that's creating the story in reality. So it exists in both places. Like I don't know whatever that's the

Chad (51m 30s): well I think there's a trap it's a trap. I think this is a good opportunity to break the fifth wall because if we talk about that particular stuff anymore, we're going to end up crazy like they ended up and it's going to be like another layer of fucked up in this so

Kev (51m 47s): you already are you really just yeah. You just knocked it out of the park bro.

Chad (51m 53s): Can we can we transition to the simpler times where we just Talk about little anecdotes that we like and then that'll be

Kev (51m 60s): that what is why why is this like suddenly taboo to

Chad (52m 4s): do it's not Taboo. It's just I don't think it is at all. We're going to start, you know, quoting Aldous Huxley and taking mushrooms to you know, make the show more

Kev (52m 15s): realistic. I'm just kidding Chad. Alright. Alright, I'll show my Quantum fourth wall breaking super nerded Theory. I liked it. I liked it too, but you're right. So anecdotally, whatever. Yep

Chad (52m 33s): anecdotally. Did you guys catch any of the like little changes when it looked back through? I enjoyed that a

Kev (52m 38s): lot. Wait, what like what

Chad (52m 40s): so first major decision agree to the game disagree to the game being made. Yeah. So if you say yes, I'll make the game. It says Nam and wrong choice you fail and then you cycle back and the scene that you watch you think is going to be identical to the scene that you Previously watched but you know Collins showing a demo of his weird game and the game crashes and and instead of instead of Collins saying, oh it's crashed because the graphics processor did this that and the other Stephen says it you know, so it's like have we met before kind of thing like the little subtle

Kev (53m 16s): tweaks? That's right. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I did dig that. I like that because I went through that that choice thread as well. Like I thought that was cool. Yeah.

Chad (53m 28s): So quite a few times throughout there were like little changes like Colin maybe in a room here if he didn't jump off the balcony or calm wouldn't be in a room because he did jump off the balcony and stuff like that. I like that there was right wasn't just rinse and repeat the same thing. I think I think without those little tweaks it would have gotten a little stale faster,

Kev (53m 45s): maybe yes. Yes and and sort of back to my Quantum super nerded fourth-wall theory in those little alternate scenes like Colin, I remember in two of them. They were both different and he said - he says like wrong choice mate or something like that. Yep, and I was like, wait a second. I was like hold on bro, does he know that he's inside of show matter? What like, you know what I mean?

Chad (54m 15s): All right Cheech.

Kev (54m 15s): The idiot in me was like that. Whatever. Okay fine. God damn it. I can't I'm like Rodney Dangerfield in this episode. I like I get no respect and I keep dying. That's my sixth death, dude.

Chad (54m 27s): Hey, it's very fitting that. You've died six times in a Choose Your Own Adventure Show. Oh shit,

Kev (54m 34s): dude. Oh you guys are trapped. We are trapped we're trapped.

Chad (54m 38s): So I didn't know Benny that the glyph was in other band other Black Mirror stuff because I like that the glyph was kind of like a branching of two paths. What? Can you remember any of the other shows that it was part

Kev (54m 50s): of? Yeah been bored. There's one where the can't remember the name of the episode. So the one time I remember seeing it was the episode where it's like, you know, the woman comes to and like fucking town. It's like gone crazy. There's like fucking people wearing like crazy like costumes and like chasing them around with shotguns and shit. I like it turns out that it turns out that she's like this is like her punishment for a crime that she

Chad (55m 19s): committed. Yeah. That's the that's the episode I watch with Emma. Haha. That was like, oh God does the okay that was the episode that I was like, oh we should watch the show. Let's just pick a random one and it was like the most fucked up thing I've ever

Kev (55m 31s): seen. I'm not a pretty sure I saw that symbol in that

Chad (55m 35s): episode. Yeah. Okay. It's been so long you probably right? I haven't I don't remember.

Kev (55m 39s): I'm pretty sure yeah, I'm not a hundred percent, but I'm pretty sure and I want to say I've seen it show up in other ones as well because it's one of those weird weird things that they've been sort of like foreshadowing math or whatever, you know,

Chad (55m 51s): yeah, which I guess makes sense if like maybe the show has been in development for a couple years it would make sense to sprinkle it. Just as like a post watch Easter egg or something. Yeah. Yeah, maybe

Kev (56m 1s): fuck. I wish I wish I knew a hundred percent net. I mean, I'm pretty sure I probably I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I recognized it when I saw it. I was like, oh nothing again. That's interesting. It was in it was in it was in the episode White Bear.

Chad (56m 16s): Yeah. That's the episode. I

Kev (56m 17s): think yes, and that was it. That was the only time it

Chad (56m 20s): appeared. Okay, cool, Jimmy let you know that one.

Kev (56m 24s): Yeah. Jim was Jimmy. Yep. Good old Jimmy Little James doing they're doing the hard work man.

Chad (56m 30s): James T. Google good memory Benny.

Kev (56m 32s): Well, I mean, I mean after this conversation, we've been having I'm beginning to wonder, you know,

Chad (56m 37s): yeah. Are you actually remembering or somebody Whispering it into your ears? Did I

Kev (56m 43s): actually remember that or is that like some implanted to somebody with that like

Chad (56m 49s): speaking of somebody plant that in the opening scene after you choose your cereal the dad gets mad because the Neighbor's dog is digging up the garden bed. I'm convinced that the neighbor's dog is digging up the garden bed because that's where you bury your dad.

Kev (57m 4s): Yep. No, no, no. No

Chad (57m 6s): what so similar to what you were saying with your meta fourth wall thing like how self-aware is the show of itself before the show even starts insinuating that you starting Bandersnatch isn't the first Loop where you bury your dad is where the dog is digging so it's kind of like if you start the show and go all the way through the end you bury your dad in the same place and the dog comes and digs it up again and you get busted and go to prison.

Kev (57m 33s): Holy shit.

Chad (57m 33s): Wow, so I kind of feel like there were a couple instances throughout there where it's kind of. Oh, and also when you're on the bus before you the first time you ever watched the show before you pick the music on the bus, they drive by a billboard with the glyph on it as well. So

Kev (57m 49s): Ooh hmm very interesting

Chad (57m 51s): So I kind of feel like I kind of feel like kind of like an M. Night Shyamalan movie where you know whenever the fucking kid that sees dead people sees the color red the person's dead. And you know, like the secret shit that you only can pick up on by reading about it or like seeing it on another viewing or something.

Kev (58m 6s): Right? Right. Right, right. Yep.

Chad (58m 10s): So I thought the dog digging one was kind of interesting.

Kev (58m 12s): Hmm. That is interesting

Chad (58m 14s): and the only other thing that jumps out at me if you guys saw it was the mirror scene. So if you say to your doctor you want to talk to you talk about your mom and then you pick up the picture instead of the book you end up going through the mirror in the bathroom instead of not being able to go through.

Kev (58m 29s): Yes. I saw that was really trippy man. Yeah,

Chad (58m 32s): and I've really enjoyed like when he goes through the mirror he teleports he kind of comes through as the child actor and that was a really cool scene.

Kev (58m 40s): Yes. I thought that was very cool that really like, I don't know that really bothered me. I got really like emotional about that whole thing. I don't know why

Chad (58m 49s): all the kids flashback

Kev (58m 49s): stuff, I guess. Yeah, probably cuz I have kids. I have no idea. Yeah. It was just whatever I was reactive.

Chad (58m 56s): Oh, sorry to be fucking hogging the mic here, but I saw a really good a really cool thing where Netflix has all the data on what people chose and actually like released a couple of things. Like they won't release all the data just because they don't want to but they said that 60% of first-time viewers picked Frosted Flakes and 70% of first-time viewers picked except as the yes, no to the making the game. Wow, and then they added one little kind of funny anecdote which was when it came to throwing the T on the computer or destroying the computer or whatever 53% of British viewers through the tea and 56 percent of worldwide viewers through the T indicating that British viewers are less likely to waste tea which was quite

Kev (59m 45s): funny. Wow, that is pretty funny.

Chad (59m 47s): It's very fucking British

Kev (59m 49s): a very very fucking British. Yeah. I don't wow perfectly pink uppity that is fucking you know, Here's what is here's what's funny about that last step chat is that my instinct was to not destroy the computer in any way. So I was like, I remember when that choice came up and I was like, I was like, oh man, I was like, I don't want to pour tea on this computer nor do I want to destroy it. I would never do that. Why would I why would I destroy a helpless computer like that? Like it's so stupid. Like I would never do that. Why would you give me such choices Bandersnatch? You know what? I mean?

Chad (1h 0m 30s): Yeah. Sometimes it really painted you into a corner.

Ben (1h 0m 32s): But also seeing kind of seemingly random thing to do as well in the situations that were handed to at the time like the throw and your computer to seemed like wet. What is it? What the fuck does that have to do with anything that's going on in the scene right now?

Chad (1h 0m 46s): Yeah.

Kev (1h 0m 46s): I know totally and he only pours it on the keyboard. It's like dude if you really want to do some damage like open up the drive and get it in there brother.

Ben (1h 0m 56s): Get it in there good spread it around.

Ben (1h 0m 59s): No, I mean like we've all we've all smashed a controller or two in our day. I'm even guilty, you know old Mohlvie so I mean come on.

Chad (1h 1m 9s): The beauty of the old Nintendo controllers is they had really long cords. You can whip 'em around the room really fast.

Kev (1h 1m 14s): Oh gee, I didn't know that

Chad (1h 1m 17s): now you need to buy one on eBay.

Kev (1h 1m 20s): Just give the stress

Chad (1h 1m 22s): toy. Yeah. Exactly.

Kev (1h 1m 25s): I remember the carpenter coming over to fix the panels on the wall that my brother and I kicked in with our feet dirt dude a video game

Chad (1h 1m 36s): rage. Yeah fair enough. In

Kev (1h 1m 37s): fact video game rage might have might have been born in my

Chad (1h 1m 40s): home. You know, I can recommend I can recommend a sheet rock or that could fix that for

Kev (1h 1m 44s): you. Oh, really? Yeah, and who's that?

Chad (1h 1m 46s): That would be Groot.

Kev (1h 1m 47s): Groot's Sheetrocking and plaster. Another bucket of joint compound here boys. I told you we're going to wear that. Then the ground folks and we re here are doing now let me go and we are not letting it go despite jar. He goes pleading. Yeah, we are not letting it go

Chad (1h 2m 8s): Jerry you go didn't even get to finish this

Kev (1h 2m 10s): story. Well, yeah exactly right that to that's why he doesn't that's why he

Chad (1h 2m 14s): wants do you want it? Do you want to take the opportunity to finish your story Char he

Kev (1h 2m 17s): go. Wait what what story the story from the group the group

Chad (1h 2m 21s): segment. I interrupted you with crude sheetrocking and you never got to talk about Vin Diesel on stilts and it seems to be a

Kev (1h 2m 26s): thing. I knew that's what you're talking about. Yeah, what's really funny is that route is on stilts and sit fucking needs don't see the point.

Chad (1h 2m 41s): How true is that? That's what

Kev (1h 2m 45s): are always legs longer dude. I don't even think about that. I mean, he's already a exactly he's already like, you know, like towering and lanky. So yeah, all he has to do is like grows finger longer and he could look, Plaster all day man, you know, like built-in finglonger amount of paint thing is built in finglonger. I love you

Chad (1h 3m 6s): Ben is of course referring to the trailer for our show that has some funny imagery including groups sheetrocking.

Kev (1h 3m 12s): Yes. Don't forget to check that out folks.

Chad (1h 3m 14s): What's finglonger

Kev (1h 3m 16s): saying longer when you make your finger longer.

Chad (1h 3m 17s): Did you just make that up? If so, you're a genius. If not, where's it from?

Kev (1h 3m 21s): He did make it up and he is a genius and that's why is Jar Heego. No, that's from that's from Futurama. Dude why I was really hoping that was your own thing because I was really into that. I like it. It's I mean need I say more thing longer. It's just funny. It's genius. I know it is in Futurama is genius just as was the same

Chad (1h 3m 45s): sense if there weren't six hundred episodes. We should probably do a show about it sometime. If only I'd been teased the

Kev (1h 3m 50s): finglonger. Oh my God, the doctor Billy West is the doctor man. She's he was my favorite. Yeah. S

Chad (1h 3m 58s): what do you say we quickly give this the show rating. It doesn't need to be an official rating which is like an overall what you thought I'm gonna go for me a letter grades. So Benny, why don't you rate this Beast? What do you

Kev (1h 4m 9s): think letter letter grade? Okay. Well, it's complicated because I think there was a lot of good material and in this, you know interactive experience. I just the the frustration of just trying to get through it was a little better now, I mean, it wasn't it wasn't terrible but it just it really did like just brought the whole thing down for me. So, I don't know. I mean, I think somewhere in there there's an A but I'm going with it could be - wow. Yeah that's higher than I thought you would have given it based on your, you know, negative experience a b-minus is like when your parents tell you that they're really disappointed in you, you know, I love it. It's like they're not yelling at you. You're not getting grounded, you know, but like you're just like hmm Tails between your legs should be

Chad (1h 4m 57s): Shame to

Kev (1h 4m 57s): yourself. I think that yeah, I feel like that's more like a c or C - but I did I'm feeling you totally I'm with you Ben

Chad (1h 5m 4s): this is that where you're at. This

Kev (1h 5m 5s): is my CC - I wouldn't say no. No, no see - no, I wow a letter grade. I'm going to give it a B+ fair. And here's the reason why I am going to give it a B+ because and not an a because I think it's brilliant. Okay, I think the acting is great stories. Great all that's great. I understand jar, he goes frustration with it and I can totally see that point of view to the point where that's taking some great away for me. I also think that the Netflix inclusion. I'm going to ignore my Quantum fourth wall super nerd theory for one second. And the inclusion of Netflix within the show like as a device also sort of makes it take take some some great away for me. So that's why it's a B+ if that makes any sense at all. I have no idea. Yeah,

Chad (1h 6m 12s): that makes sense. Yeah, I'm going to split the difference. I think for me. I'll just give it a be in between you two

Kev (1h 6m 17s): guys. Okay. Wow, Abby for Bandersnatch folks there. You have it three B's for Bandersnatch fee for Bandersnatch.

Chad (1h 6m 24s): I think this is the first time we've all been kind of in a simmer in a similar mindset with ratings. Yeah, I think very similar to you cave like the Netflix thing really kicked it down a notch for me, but there's no point in retreading it. I really respect how ballsy it is to try and Tackle something like this and the amount of work they had to put in to shoot all these different scenes and stuff. Yes, that is quite clever similar to how they bitch about it in the game with the the game being made by Colin not having enough branches. I kind of feel like a little bit more of a branch out. Have been interesting, but at the same time like I'm not going to go I went through the thing five times. So I'm not you know, if there was more of a branch out. You probably have to go through it maybe even an order of magnitude more. So instead of 5 times you have to go through it 50 times to see everything. So I don't know how much patience I would have for

Kev (1h 7m 11s): that. Right? But Chad once you go through five times you are you can call yourself an official Bandersnatchian.

Chad (1h 7m 18s): Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Go ahead. I now have a Bandersnatch

Kev (1h 7m 24s): I like what you did there.

Chad (1h 7m 27s): So I like it was it was ambitious and I think they pulled a lot of it off and like you said the acting was good and you know, a lot of it was quite good and even the endings like even though the Netflix ending. I'm not a big fan of but a lot of the other endings were interesting and and the way that was woven together was good. It's just maybe like the main reason it's a be instead of an a for me is that I don't think interactive media is going to go as far as traditional media. I feel like the The ground that we covered in like talking about Avengers as are not avengers talking about the MCU as a 23 movie series. I feel like longer form traditional storytelling is going to go a lot farther than interactive storytelling the interactive, you know world is being adequately serviced by video games, you know video games are plenty good enough and I think your point been about how sometimes you just want to kick back and be entertained and having to jump up. It's kind of like the the days before the remote controls. It's fucking annoying. Nobody wants to do it and it just stops happening after a while. So that's kind of why it didn't didn't hit an a for

Kev (1h 8m 32s): me. No, dude. Can you get up and change the channel? The

Chad (1h 8m 39s): deaths calves? You died. You died more times in this show than I died watching Bandersnatch five times.

Kev (1h 8m 45s): This is the largest amount of deaths. I have ever incurred during an episode of this podcast and I actually wrote them down this time because we're such a bunch of blowouts we Every single

Chad (1h 8m 58s): week. Yeah, I think I forgot

Kev (1h 8m 59s): mine. So I my deaths were in order of death. I died on that whole spider thing from Goodfellas. I I died when I mentioned it and it was like crickets and then I died again because spider dies in that scene. That's death one and two number three was The Price is Right death. I been made The Price is Right noise. I thought it was funny. I asked jar he go to repeat The Price is Right noise, and he severely scolded me like a child and said they heard it dance monkey dance and then he moved on and I was dejected crying in my over-sized pillow forth death Papa Palpatine, man. So I was explaining Star Wars reference die. That's gonna be always it was a Star Wars reference death about Palpatine and it just went over like a lead balloon Fifth and final death was when I brought up the Chad started talking about the little subtle changes in the scenes and I brought up how Colin had said wrong choice made and somehow just you two were like he had no not that's it.

Chad (1h 10m 10s): That's it man. I think I died talking about the alternative reality games. I think I babbled on about that for a while. I think that was How I died. Is

Kev (1h 10m 17s): that how I died? Yeah, you died going on about Halo 2. There you go. Yeah. What about you been here? And I I don't I don't even remember now. There were a couple of them though. There was one right at the beginning in there's one in the midst of things fuck.

Chad (1h 10m 31s): I love the tradition that you never remember. I love it. I don't think you've ever remembered.

Kev (1h 10m 35s): I love it too. You know what I get distracted by everybody else has debts as they

Chad (1h 10m 39s): occur when we started the segment. You're like I know exactly how I died and then we all went on about it. And now you don't

Kev (1h 10m 45s): remember. Yeah now I don't remember so so there's that. There it is.

Chad (1h 10m 50s): So next week we're talking Umbrella Academy you guys recommended it and I'm pretty stoked to talk about it. I

Kev (1h 10m 54s): am also stoked stoked indeed. Yes. I just wanted to say for the folks at home. Thanks for tuning in. We always enjoy having you here on the podcast and we always enjoy doing the podcast so long from OV see you guys adios people. And that's going to wrap up this week's episode. If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about today. You can find them in the show notes in your podcast app of choice or at the website ebd.fm/18. If you have any thoughts on the show or an idea for a topic hit us up on Twitter @ebdpodcast. You can find me @mohlverine on Twitter. That's m-o-h-l-v-e-r-i-n-e. Chad is @chadnormal on Twitter and Ben is @jarheego on Twitter. That's j-a-r-h-e-e-g-o. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time folks.